Intro
A song-podcast follows a simple principle: dedicating one podcast to a single recording from the 1932 Cairo Congress. Contemporary artists, researchers, and experts choose a recording and explain the reasons for their choice, followed by the original piece in its entirety.
Amreddine Betaouaf is an Algerian doctor. He also conducts the orchestra of the Parisian association Les Airs Andalous. Here, he highlights a tushia, an instrumental piece from the Nuba Raml al ashiya, recorded in Cairo by the Sheikh Larbi Bensari ensemble from Tlemcen.
We met on 16 March 2024 in Paris, after a Ramadan rehearsal. Here, Amreddine discusses his close ties with the Tlemcen school of Gharnati music, highlighting the continuities and changes since 1932. He also looks back on his involvement with the association and his experience in passing on this heritage, inspiring vocations, including across the Atlantic.
Interview
I’m an Andalusian-Arabic music player. I am the conductor of an orchestra that belongs to an association based in Paris, Les Airs Andalous which was created in 1996. We created it to promote this music and pass it on to people here in France and try to reach the French public as well.
This music was passed down to us by elderly shuyukh (ed.: pl. of sheikh) who themselves learned it from others. It came originally from Andalusia, and these shuyukh passed it down to us by word of mouth because it has not been written down to this day. By the way, the researchers – we know – who have tried to write this music have found that writing it down detracts a little from its soul…
So, for this podcast, I chose the recording of Sheikh Larbi Bensari because he is one of our masters. It is from his works, and recordings that we, our association and other one (ed.: in Algeria) were able to work and pass on this music to new generations.
At that time, he was performing with a small orchestra. Nowadays, we have orchestras of around twenty musicians with a choir. But back then, the orchestra included five or six artists, playing an instrument from that era, which we still use today. But we later added other instruments to give it a slightly different dimension and sound.
I listened to the Nuba he performed (ed.: at the 1932 Cairo Congress), called Raml al ashiya. It is one of the Nuba – suites of Andalusian classical music – of which there were originally twenty-four, corresponding to each hour of the day and night. Sheikh Bensari notably performed the Raml al ashiya which was originally played at sunset. Its themes evoke metaphors drawn from the description of nature and sunset, but also celebrate love and friendship, which were likewise honored in the poetic lyrics.
FG: How did you perceive this 1932 recording by Sheikh Bensari in relation to the same repertoire you perform, in a slightly different way and with a larger orchestra?
AB: Sheikh Larbi’s recording, like all his recordings we know, reflects his very rigorous work. When he’s performing/conducting a concert, he does it in a very academic and strict way. Meaning he shows with his playing that the notes must be played in a very precise manner, and not otherwise. And even when the musicians accompanying him were not always the usual ones.
And so, it’s true that we follow his working method, but we try to modify, or improve the interpretation of the pieces, that gives a little more nuance, in the way the soloists are singing or performing a duet. This duet can be seen as a specific language between the two, depending on the text used, and it creates a kind of discussion. It allows the audience to be more focused or interested not only in listening, but also in what is happening, in the emotions exchanged between both artists.
FG:In musical terms, is it exactly the same music, since it is not written down and therefore variations are possible? And, in terms of poetry, are the sung texts the originals?
AB: They are the same texts we pass on. This heritage is preserved, meaning that we don’t change it, neither the lyrics nor the melodies. We just improve the interpretation, depending on the performance, the exchanges, or the emotions we convey. But the text and melody do not change, nor do the rhythms.
FG: And since it is an orchestra, is there any work done on the harmonies?
Yes, we used to harmonise certain things, especially as we are in an orchestra including many girls’ and boys’ voices. We try to play on that, to achieve a beautiful harmony between everyone, so that there is no female or male dominance, but rather a unifying sound. Generally, this heritage is played in a unified way. It’s not the case that one instrument plays one way and another instrument plays another way. All the instruments play the same melody in unison.
FG: From your point of view, based on your experience, do you prefer this old-school version from the 1930s? How do you position yourself in relation to this heritage?
AB: Well, it’s different, because even at that time, there were always different ways of interpreting. We can take as an example Redouan, Sheikh Bensari’son. He had an extraordinary ability to sing. When you hear him singing alone you feel a deep emotion, even now.
When it comes to his father’s rigor, we often exchange anecdotes. Sometimes, we laugh about it and sometimes we suddenly decide to play “Sheikh Larbi style”, which has also its charm. When you listen to a Sheikh Larbi’s recording you recognise him immediately anyway.
So, we try to play the same way he did with some adaptations: dry, with silences and pauses, but in a slightly better way to give beautiful harmony to the orchestra. He used to play in a jerky, serious way to bring together all the elements that were with him, creating a group’s cohesion. That’s what was great at the time and what we try to reintroduce.
FG: We can see from your association’s activity for several decades that there is an interest in this musical genre here in France, but in Algeria, has there been an evolution since the time of Bensari, or a similar interest in this musical heritage?
AB: In Algeria, we are conservative in terms of musical heritage, and I am also like this. It means that we preserve our heritage as we have learned it. As I explained, we just try not to change it, because it’s true, there has been an influence from a new generation, who have tried to give it a slightly oriental influence (ed.: i.e. from the Middle East), but it didn’t supply the same emotion that we feel when we listen to this music. That’s why we preferred to be conservative and try to play in a style, let’s say, that is very “Sheikh Larbi”.
FG: Your association was created in 1996, but in 2007, you decided to create a training space for the children of the music-loving parents of this Gharnati music. Today, 80% of the orchestra you conduct, is made up of students. Could you tell us about this educational experience as well?
As mentioned, our association was created in 1996, at that time, we were just a group of students who have arrived in France to complete our studies. And little by little, we only had students who had already learned this kind of music in Algeria through various associations in Tlemcen, Algiers, Belabbes, Oran,…
Later we tried to pass on this heritage, thinking of creating a school. So, we did in 2007. We started with children of the parents involved in the association, and gradually other children came. Now we even take adults. Recently, we had a 70-year-old person who came to learn. We also had foreigners (neither North Africans, nor Arabs), including a man from Chile and one from the United States. Eventually, we had lots of people who joined our association to learn about this heritage.
And now, our school has evolved. We pass on the heritage as we have learned it and with everything that encompasses it, that is to say, what we are singing, the lyrics, their translation. Additionally, we give quite detailed explanations about why we sing them that way, about the rhythms, the modes, … We try to better train the members of our association, by improving the transmission of our heritage a little more.
FG: I attended your rehearsal just before this interview. I noticed that there were people from different backgrounds, origins, and ages. Perhaps, we’ll end our discussion about an American musicologist who came to your association and a Chilean music lover.
AB: The American wanted to learn about the Nuba at all costs, as a classic of our heritage. He had already been to Tlemcen and then he came here to Paris. And then, he told me that he really wanted to learn a complete Nuba because he would like to discover what it has to offer, its richness. So, he learned this first Nuba with us and then he even went on stage with us. I think he was a music teacher and was at some point involved in Maghrebi music. He was going to start a small band in his country to teach them this repertoire. So, he ended up creating that group where he taught the first Nuba and learned other ones with us and with other associations. He is also continuing to pass on this music in the United States.
The Chilean guy, meanwhile, was a student here in Paris and he really liked music. He really enjoyed the oud. And he visited us to learn all about our music heritage. He didn’t just want just the Gharnati Nuba, but also the Hawzi style. He learned quite a lot from us and when he finished his studies, went back to Chile. He created his own group there and he performed Nuba, with his group, but also Hawzi and other genres.
A month ago, one of my students at our association, went to Chile, met him and, as she told me, it was wonderful, it was magnificent. They performed in a garden, together with his group, started singing and playing all the songs. He immediately picked it up and sent us recordings. It was magnificent. I was very happy to see that this music is evolving elsewhere, too.
FIND OUT MORE
An extract from a Ramadan evening (March 2026) “Sabil an-Nur” the madih Qisat al-Mi‘rāj (قصة المعراج), the spiritual story of the nocturnal ascension of the prophet Mohamed.
Jonathan Holt Shannon (2015), Performing al-Andalus: Music and Nostalgia across the Mediterranean.
Benali el Hassar (2002),Tlemcen: Cité des grands maîtres de la musique arabo-andalouse .